Talk:Downe, Kent Genealogy

New Parish Table
Downe parish registers of christenings, marriages and burials are available online for the following years:

To find the names of the neighboring parishes, use England Jurisdictions 1851 Map. In this site, search for the name of the parish, click on the location "pin", click Options and click List contiguous parishes.

Kent Online Parish Clerks has indexes available for select parishes. Records are also available at the Kent Archives.

Old Parish Table
parish registers of christenings, marriages and burials are available online for the following years:

Deposited Parish registers are held at Bromley Archives reference P 123

Bromley Central Library Telephone: 020 8461 7170 Fax: 020 8466 7860 e-mail: localstudies.library@bromley.gov.uk

The earliest of the registers of Downe is a 74 page volume, measuring thirteen inches by five and a half, 54 pages of vellum parchment with the last twenty of paper. It is roughly stitched with string, by way of binding, into a parchment sheet which is part of an old deed. This deals with a debt and consequent transactions between ' the said Anthony ' and ' the said Israeli', Sale of Wapping, distiller, and a Mr. John Johnstone. One of the parties seems to have lived in the parish of the Blessed Mary of Bow in the ward of Cheap. This document shows no evidence of any connexion with the parish of Downe although a Lieutenant Colonel Johnson, who inhabited Down House may have kept this record of an ancestor and donated it to bind the register. The latest date visible in the deed is 1650. The inclusion within the wrapper or binding of a list of clergy as late as 1874 ( the Induction of a domestic chaplain to Lord Carrington to the vicarage 2 November 1874) suggests that the whole register we now see as "The Downe Register of Baptisms, Marriages and Burials 1538-1733" at the Bromley Library and Archives under reference P132/1/8 was bound or rather rebound with the addition of a half page and clergy page later than the original register binding. There is evidence of water damage some pages are partly holed before ink entries were added as the writing avoids the hole; whereas the page with Baptisms for 1564 and on reverse for 1574 and 1575 have missing part word entries. It is however possible to read sufficiently to offer transcripts for the two baptisms in "Anno Domini 1574" The period of the Civil Wars and Commonwealth was one of ecclesiastical anarchy, which seriously affected parish registers. In 1640 a Committee was appointed to deal with scandalous ministers, that is, with the Clergy who were loyal to Church and King. Refusal to take the Covenant caused the ejection of many clergymen in 1643 and afterwards. New ministers, often undesirable persons, were imposed upon many parishes, and in 1653 civil registrars were ordered to be appointed, and marriages to take place before justices of the peace. All these conditions came to an end with the restoration of the monarchy in 1660 ; meanwhile, the system of parish registers had fallen into confusion if not into neglect. There were curates at Downe during part at least of the troubled period. No appointment appears between those of Nicholas Peirson in 1589 and Thomas Emerson in 1646 ; but Emerson was followed by one Kinge in 1650, and then by George Bradshaw in 1654. The next is Philip Jones in 1672. Actually, the disorder of the Downe registers extends over a longer period than that of 1640-60. The entries of baptisms are not completely interrupted, except in 1646-8, for any period longer than a year; but there are only fifty-one of them in twenty-two years. Marriages are not registered from 1640 to 1653, nor burials from 1641 to the same year. From 1654 George Bradshaw made some entries in his own hand until 1664. But another and quite literate hand made most of the few baptismal entries over the whole period from 1638 to 1663, apparently at one time, and this may represent an attempt to collect the names of those who at the end of the Commonwealth were not unbaptized. Again from 1665 there is a lapse in the marriage entries until 1671, and in those of burials until 1672. The year of the plague (1665-6) is not covered. Philip Jones resumed the proper keeping of the register in 1672.

The second register "Number 2" register includes baptisms, marriages and burials for the years 1697-1812 and in the years 1697-1733 creates a duplicate of events. This register includes more genealogical information including parts of the parish like North End, Downe and occupations and birth dates as well as baptismal entries. The slightly irregular dual register apparently drew attention; within the front cover there is a Rector's declaration that only one register was kept but both registers for the overlapping years are deposited at Bromley Archives. It is advisable to refer to the number 2 register for years from 1697 onwards.

The register also contains some interesting records of the change of churchwardens 1697-1772; and some payments for burial for individuals including burial in the church of Reverend Dr Boote, the brick grave burial of Thos. Omer and the vault for Mr and Mrs Willm. Werry. From 1697 onwards the Revd C Clarke MA was responsible for the planting of "ye trees in ye churchyard, except the two great yews".

The burial register from 1813 contains two curate notes which relate to village history. In 1813 an outbreak of dysentry is mentioned by J Bull Curate, "An epidemic of the bloody flux prevailed during the latter part of the year proving fatal to many" (dysentry was known at this period as "the flux" or "bloody flux"). A marginal note in 1860 records that "the large walnut tree in the centre of the village blown down 2 June 1860" The microfilming of this register contains several entries which are faint on the microfilm images but are clearly legible in the original register deposited at Bromley Archives reference P132/1/14 which contains entries for years 1813-1949 although entries after 1900 are greatly diminished. The original register also contains several marginal pencil entries which do not appear on the microfilm exposure. This register is regularly used until the late 1890's when local authority Cemeteries and Crematorium were available and churchyard burial rapidly diminished. The register after 1900 contains reference to the burial of ashes in tombs and in family church yard plots for prominent local families. There are 5 entries after 1910 in the years in 1926 and 1927 for burial of ashes in the Darwin family tomb and three burials of the Smith family of Downe Court in 1946,1947 and 1949. Research for burial after 1898 for residents of the village should include examination of the records of the local authority burials at both Biggin Hill Cemetery and Beckenham Cemetery (including Crematorium) maintained by the London Borough of Bromley. The 1919 Monumental Inscriptions compiled by Leland Duncan ( see below) are also useful to locate a number of churchyard burials and tombs.

The third marriage register for 1838-1912 was withdrawn by the General Register Office due to the quality of the paper; the original is bound with a memorandum from the Registrar General. The 171 marriage entries are affected by the ink bleeding and spreading and in some cases entries are difficult to read. The transcription of this index involves a statutory search of the Bromley Registration index volume for the parish to establish names recorded and variation between the two records. The parish volume is more severely affected than the volume returned to the local Superintendent Registrar who was also in difficulty. The use of microfilm for this register is of limited assistance to the searcher as magnification is needed to view the original entries found to be too difficult to read from microfilm images.

Kent Online Parish Clerks (OPC) has now published transcript material for a variety of record sources in relation to Downe by volunteers working in the Bromley Archives. A Cooperative Indexing Agreement with FamilySearch is being implemented to facilitate further transcription during 2013.

Both parish registers numbers 1 &amp; 2 are now online in transcript form. Although two microfilms of this register are available; one by Kent Archives the other is the filming listed at the Family History Library it has been found beneficial to handle the original document for many years as outlined above. The register includes a November 1559 visitation by Queen Elizabeth I to atttend the Baptism of a daughter of Henry Manning who was Knight Marshal, or Marshal of the Household, under Henry VIII, Edward VI, Mary, and Elizabeth.

Work to add Marriage registers and Banns Book and post 1812 Baptism and Burial registers will continue during 2012 to form a complete online transcript for the parish until 1912.

Family History Library film numbers See also England, Kent, Parish Registers and Bishop's Transcripts (FamilySearch Historical Records) Bishop's Transcripts images are now available at Family Search Historical Records England, Kent, Bishop's Transcripts, 1560-1911&gt;Kent&gt;Down and are digital images derived from microfilm Film #1469340, Item 2 consisting of Baptisms, burials and marriages, 1813-1835; baptisms and burials, 1849-1858, 1875, 1893, 1898-99, 1903

The original transcript bundle for Downe is held at the Kent Library and Archive, Maidstone and is a slightly disorganised bundle tied with ribbon, held under reference

DRb/RT2/123/1-3 Christenings 1813-1835, 1849-1858, 1875, 1893, 1898-1899, 1903

DRb/RT2/123/1-3 Marriages 1813-1830 There is a single marriage entry for 1835 between the burial and baptism entries for that year.

DRb/RT2/123/1-3 Burials 1813-1835, 1849-1858, 1875, 1893, 1898-1899, 1903.

The early years baptisms include some damaged pages but the entries for these are duplicated. The baptisms have a gap in chronological sequence after December 1830 ( register number 189) and resume in 1835 ( register number 248). The bundle throughout includes mixed register pages of baptisms ( partially page numbered but with many lacking page numbers) marriages and burials. There are also errors in some entry fields or blank entries. Whilst useful for comparison with the parish register; the parish register forms a more complete record and should be viewed as the primary record. The transcripts were originally registered and stored at Rochester and the Downe bundle contains the name and address of the Diocesan Registry along with the annual return from Downe which had a Perpetual Curate prior to becoming a parish united with the neighbouring parish of Cudham, Kent within the Diocese of Rochester.Visitors to Kent Archives may also view microfilm of the transcripts, see Kent Archives Guide The Bishops Transcripts have also been digitised and are available on the Kent History Source website at the Kent History and Library Centre.

International Genealogical Index Batch C165281 post 1812. This extraction batch is from microfilm of the Bishop's Transcripts for the parish for years 1813 - 1835,1849 - 1858 and1875 for baptismal entries only derived from Genealogical Society of Utah filming of the Bishop's Transcript series for the diocese at Kent Archives in 1987. The Microfilm includes Baptisms, burials and marriages, 1813-1835; baptisms and burials, 1849-1858, 1875, 1893, 1898-99, 1903 and spelling variation of the parish name is found in the FamilySearch Catalogue for the 1987 microfilming. This variation is present in transcription also. It is advisable to check primary record sources for the parish as some entries as extracted in the International Genealogical Index contain some transcription errors.

Records for Downe Baptist Church have not been deposited with Bromley Archives, it is advisable to contact the Downe Baptist Church elders for assistance in access to the Downe Baptist Church Minutes.

Gazetteer entries
A gazetter reference has been added to the parish history which is already detailed. There is a heading for maps and gazetteers and the contributor might have used this to add the reference. Since the gazetteer adopts a 19th century spelling of the village name it is arguably better to restore the original parish history introduction and place the gazetteer entry elsewhere, if indeed a gazetteer entry needs to be added? ( See paragraph below about variant spelling of the village) Arguably the gazetteer content is not useful in this case; the Kent Online Parish Clerk page contains much more detailed gazetteer material and will be developed further in future. The image caption removed by this edit has been restored. DowneOPC 07:10, 3 November 2012 (UTC)

Down or Downe spelling?
The Family History Library film catalogue mis-spells the village name. In case of query Down House was the home of Charles Darwin! Penshurst 15:48, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

The error in the catalogue entry is also present in the International Genealogical Index batch entries. The village is spelled Downe (see link to Edward Hasted) consistently in record sources,but is also found as Down. It seems likely that the cataloguer made an error based on the microfilm information provided.

There is a debate on introduction of Downe as a fixed spelling when mail was introduced to avoid confusion with other places in the mail system; however examination of earlier records shows that no fixed spelling emerged consistently from the hand of most local clergy or Land Tax assessors; as indeed the spelling of names is inconsistent. All civil parish material is Downe; there is consistency from 1837 in the civil registration records held at Bromley which have been examined and Poor Law records vary in some cases ( depending on the author).

DowneOPC 20:06, 16 March 2012 (UTC)

Downe Composite Register
Explanation of the earliest register has been added to assist anyone who is using microfilm images to attempt research. The quality of microfilm exposure in both the Kent Archive filming and the GSU filmings add to the difficulty of reading parts of the vellum pages. With permission the Kent OPC examination of the original document and the deed wrapper has enabled transcription to provide clearer help to searchers in the early register. It is hoped to have a transcript online with permission of the copyright holders as soon as possible. The anarchy of record keeping between 1640-1672 makes research prior to 1672 difficult with the evident loss of child baptisms reflected in 51 entries in 22 years.DowneOPC 19:03, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Copyright questions
Moderators please note that material contributed to this page is being adopted by other online pages which claim copyright on material. The content contributed describing detail of parish register series has been used to update the Bromley Archive catalogue as part of voluntary contributions to the updating of the catalogue; similarly parish poor house research has improved the catalogue references at the Archive. In case of query as to copyright please refer to contributor. The volunteer effort involved has resulted in collaboration with other relevant sites who acknowledge this effort. The date of text on this page will precede by several months any copyrighted site claims to copyright DowneOPC 09:14, 11 June 2012 (UTC)

FamilySearch Wiki technical issues
Due to a technical failure it has been necessary to resubmit edits from 25 June in connection with Poor Law records DowneOPC 14:16, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Cooperative Indexing Agreement
During October 2012 Kent Online Parish Clerks with the permission of Kent Library and Archives submitted a Cooperative Indexing Agreement request to FamilySearch for implementation during 2013 in respect of record sources for the parish previously microfilmed by the Genealogical Society of Utah. The existing Kent Online Parish Clerks transcripts extends beyond the FamilySearch material in years covered and offers a more accurate transcript than for example the data included in the International Genealogical Index batches.

Implementation of the agreement will depend upon the length of time FamilySearch take to provide material to the transcription group.

DowneOPC 12:15, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Jurisdictions Infobox
I have added the Infobox England Jurisdictions to the top of this page. The purpose of this is to summarise the different bodies that had a jurisdiction over the local area and where records may be found. At the moment the infobox does not handle the ability to show multiple links under one heading. I would be interested to hear if this ability is essential or whether listing the most recent with narrative explanation in the article explaining the time period when this was not the case. Thoughts? The infobox is also a place holder for an image and will prevent the inadvertent removal of the image caption by contributors that use the rich text editor. I also removed some "+" that I found at the end of URLs that prevent the links working correctly. --Steve 16:31, 27 November 2012 (UTC)