User:Sabwoo/Sandbox

My User Page My Talk Page United States Page has links to any State Page The following are links to counties that are listed as Extinct or Renamed Arizona Counties, but were discontinued. Pah-Ute· Rio Virgin The following are links to counties that are listed as Extinct or Renamed Arizona Counties, but never were. They were really New Mexico counties. Bernalillo· Doña Ana· Rio Arriba· Santa Ana· Socorro· Taos· Valencia The following are links to counties that are listed as Extinct or Renamed Arizona Counties, but never were. They were really proposed counties, that were rejected. Castle Dome· Ewell· Mesilla

Extinct or Renamed Counties of Arizona - email to Dilts 1, no reply
There are seven articles for counties listed in the "Extinct or Renamed Counties" of Arizona - Bernalillo, Dona Ana, Rio Arriba, Santa Ana, Socorro, Taos, and Valencia. Those seven articles are your creation, and you have continued to support them by making changes. I particularly like the maps you added.

But I have a disagreement with those seven articles. They are listed in the article for Arizona, indicating that they were counties of Arizona. The titles of those seven articles state very clearly that they were counties of Arizona. At first I edited those articles to show that none of them were counties of Arizona. I believe the facts show this. Then I thought the problem is the title of the articles, so it needs to be changed. Finally I realized that the basic premiss of the articles is faulty, they were never counties of Arizona. I notice that in your continuing editing, you left my wording remain in those articles.

Suppose that you had an ancestor living on the land that would one day become Arizona, that is before 1863. He would have lived in New Mexico Territory in one of those seven counties, but it would have been a New Mexico county. Any records that he would have generated, would be sent to the county offices of that New Mexico county.

Then in 1863, everything changed. Arizona Territory was created from the western half of New Mexico Territory. All counties that had existed before on that land were discontinued. Soon Arizona created four new counties for this new territory - Mohave, Yavapai, Yuma, and Pima.

Your hypothetical ancestor would have lived in one of those four Arizona counties. Any records that he generated would be sent to the county offices of that Arizona county. None of those four Arizona counties have been discontinued, but over the years have been divided up until Arizona now has 15 counties. Only one county has been discontinued: Pah-Ute.

For me, the purpose of the Family Search Wiki is to identify the location where records may be found, so that those who don't know may be led to the right location. I don't believe those seven articles above help to do this.

The information in those seven articles is good information, but it really belongs in the New Mexico county articles. I propose to transfer that information, then remove those seven Arizona articles. But I didn't want to proceed with this, without giving you a chance to explain your side of things. I would like for this to be done by agreement. Please let me know.

I also see that you are a big contributor for three other articles in the "Extinct or Renamed Counties" of Arizona - Castle Dome, Ewell, and Mesilla.

Since those three counties never existed, those articles do not lead to finding any records. They are not helpful. I propose to remove those three articles. But again, I ask for your side of the story, before I proceed. Please let me know.

In the end, I intend to have only two articles listed - Pah-Ute and Rio Virgin. The only reason Rio Virgin will be listed, is that it incorrectly covered land in Arizona and therefore might have some records of Arizona. For me the reason for doing all this is to make things clear and helpful for those just starting out in genealogy.

I have come to the conclusion that those ten articles should be removed from the Arizona article as "Extinct or Renamed Counties." It appears that you believe otherwise. I would appreciate understanding your reasons and working together to make the Arizona article better.

Extinct or Renamed Counties of Arizona - Dsammy 1
I see that you are a contributor to three articles in the "Extinct or Renamed Counties" of Arizona - Castle Dome, Ewell, and Mesilla. For me, the purpose of the Family Search Wiki is to identify the location where records may be found, so that those who don't know may be led to the right location. I don't believe those three articles above help to do this.

Since those three counties never existed, those articles do not lead to finding any records. They are not helpful. I propose to remove those three articles. But before I proceed, I ask for your side of the story. I would like for this to be done by agreement. Please let me know.

In the end, I intend to have only two articles listed - Pah-Ute and Rio Virgin. The only reason Rio Virgin will be listed, is that it incorrectly covered land in Arizona and therefore might have some records of Arizona. For me the reason for doing all this is to make things clear and helpful for those just starting out in genealogy.

I have come to the conclusion that those three articles should be removed from the Arizona article as "Extinct or Renamed Counties." It appears that you believe otherwise. I would appreciate understanding your reasons and working together to make the Arizona article better.

REPLY

They STAY. Part of Rio Virgin County was northwest corner of Arizona after it was abolished after the boundaries of Utah Territory was changed when state of Nevada was created. It is not 100 percent Nevada. Please restore it. Of all states, you picked on Arizona to try to delete. It does NOT means the search for records. Wiki is "Reference Wiki" and it is stated as such, meaning not just the records, but also research to guide anyone looking for right directions. You want to remove the road signs, setting the researchers on roads to nowhere! Dsammy 23:51, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Extinct or Renamed Counties of Arizona - Dilts 2
There are seven articles for counties listed in the "Extinct or Renamed Counties" of Arizona - Bernalillo, Dona Ana, Rio Arriba, Santa Ana, Socorro, Taos, and Valencia. These seven articles are your creation, and you have continued to support them by making changes. Perhaps you feel a closeness to them. I particularly like the maps you added.

But I have a disagreement with these seven articles. They are listed in Arizona, indicating that they were counties of Arizona. The titles of these seven articles very clearly state that they were counties of Arizona. But actually, all of these seven were counties of New Mexico. They covered land which later was in Arizona and Nevada, but any records created were sent to their respective New Mexico county offices.

When Arizona became a territory, all seven of these counties were discontinued in Arizona and completely replaced. None of these seven counties were ever Arizona counties. Leaving them in is not helpful to those new to genealogy. For me, the purpose of the Family Search Wiki is to identify the location where records may be found, so that those who don't know may be led to the right location. I don't believe these seven articles help to do this.

The information in the body of these seven articles is good information, but that information belongs in the New Mexico county articles. I propose to transfer that information, then remove these seven counties from the Extinct and Renamed Counties of Arizona and delete them. But I don’t want to proceed with this, without giving you a chance to explain your side of things. I am not perfect and maybe I have overlooked something. I would like for this to be done by agreement. Please let me know.

There are three other counties listed in the Extinct and Renamed Counties of Arizona - Castle Dome, Ewell, and Mesilla. I know you have made changes to these and maybe have a closeness for them as well. But none of these three were ever counties of Arizona, they were only “proposed counties” that were rejected. No records were ever created for these counties. Leaving them in is not helpful to those new to genealogy. I propose to remove these three counties from the Extinct and Renamed Counties of Arizona and delete them.

Neither of the above proposals have yet been done. I would appreciate understanding your acceptance or opposition and why. I would like to work with you on making the Arizona article better. For me the reason for doing all this is to make things clear and helpful for those just starting out in genealogy.

Extinct or Renamed Counties of Arizona - Dsammy 2
From your strongly worded reply to my first message, I see that you really care about the Arizona article in the Research Wiki. I care also. I live in Arizona and my family has been here since 1882, that is why I try to improve the Arizona article.

But I am at a loss as to why you feel the way you do. Your reply was confusing to me. I want to understanding your reasoning. So, let me state again in more detail what I propose to do, then you tell me what it is you object to and why. I am not perfect and maybe I have overlooked something. Please let me know.

It seems you believe that I want to delete Rio Virgin County. Not true, I would not delete it. I want to keep it. Rio Virgin County was created by Utah, but also included land outside of Utah in present day Arizona and Nevada. Land records created for Arizona and Nevada were sent to the Rio Virgin County offices. I want Rio Virgin County listed in the Extinct and Renamed Counties of Arizona. I propose to leave things the way they are for Rio Virgin County.

I also want Pah-Ute County listed in the Extinct and Renamed Counties of Arizona. It was created by Arizona and covered land in present day Arizona and Nevada, some of the same land covered by Rio Virgin County. Records were created for land in Arizona and Nevada that were sent to the Pah-Ute County offices. I propose to leave things the way they are for Pah-Ute County.

There are seven other counties listed in the Extinct and Renamed Counties of Arizona - Bernalillo, Dona Ana, Rio Arriba, Santa Ana, Socorro, Taos, and Valencia. All of these seven counties were created by New Mexico, but covered land which later was in Arizona and Nevada. Any records created were sent to their respective New Mexico county offices. When Arizona became a territory, all seven of these counties were discontinued in Arizona and replaced. None of these seven counties were ever Arizona counties. Leaving them in is not helpful to those new to genealogy. I propose to remove these seven counties from the Extinct and Renamed Counties of Arizona and delete them.

There are also three other counties listed in the Extinct and Renamed Counties of Arizona - Castle Dome, Ewell, and Mesilla. I know you have made many changes to these and maybe have a closeness for them. But none of these three counties were ever counties of Arizona, they were “proposed counties” that were rejected. They were never created, so no records were created for these counties. Leaving them in is not helpful to those new to genealogy. I propose to remove these counties from the Extinct and Renamed Counties of Arizona and delete them.

None of the above proposals have yet been done. I would appreciate understanding your reasons for opposing any of this. I would like to work with you on making the Arizona article better. For me the reason for doing all this is to make things clear and helpful for those just starting out in genealogy.