User talk:Lstevens@infinet.com

Hi Lstevens,

Thank you for your edits and contributions on the '''Wiki FamilySearch Ohio Military pages. We invite you to continue to edit and contribute to these pages as well as other pages of interest as you accrue additional information. You are so appreciated! '''Darh

YOUR USER PAGE You are invited to click on the"User Page" tab at the top of this page just under the "FamilySearch" tree. Here you are given the opportunity to tell about yourself, your interests and desires as far as genealogy is concerned. Thank you in advance for taking the time to allow the Wiki readers a chance to get to know you.

Welcome, Lstevens@infinet.com,

We are happy that you have joined the research community of FamilySearch Research Wiki. We want to help you enjoy your involvement in this wiki community.

You are not alone. I am one of several people on the Welcoming Committee for FamilySearch Wiki. Each of us wants to make your time on the Wiki a fulfilling, and worthwhile experience.

As a new contributor, you may feel a little overwhelmed at the scope of the Wiki. If and when you need help please contact me (Darh1) for assistance. If I don’t know the answer, I will find someone who does. You are NEEDED and WANTED Review the Wiki Tour to get you started and help Thanks again and welcome aboard, Darh1 14:20, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Ohio military articles - copyrighted material
Hi Larry,

I have noticed over the last couple of days that you have made edits with the summary "Edited copyrighted material and provided link. Thanks. Larry Stevens". I would be interested to understand why you think there is/was a copyright issue with these articles. Thanks --Steve 21:51, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Wed March 14 10:33 AM - US eastern time

Hi Steve

Here is a copy of my email. Hope I am using this feature correctly. Sorry if not.

Also note I am in no way hostile to FamilySearch wiki.

Yes I did that. I publish the Ohio in the Civil War web site. NOTE: I have a copy right notice on all of my pages. I'm sure as you know it takes time and a lot of work to compile and set up information like this. I offer the information for free to any one on the internet. Common internet courtesy is to link to information sites like mine. It is not courteous to cut and paste my work into your web site! Links are great - stealing info is not!

I also have noted the following on all of the FamilySearch pages "Please note that all contributions to FamilySearch Wiki can be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. When creating content, please use public domain or similar free resources (see FamilySearch Wiki:Copyrights for details) or create original text. Do not submit copyrighted work without permission. Entries that violate copyright or other acceptable use policies will be deleted by FamilySearch Wiki administrators."

I have never given FamilySearch wiki permission to publish my info on their web site. I never will. But I offer up links to my site for FREE.

The main Wikipedia web site ( Wikipedia.org ) users honor the Copyright notices and I see no reason why FamilySearch wiki should have to resort to the cutting and pasting game.

As you see I have deleted all of my work. But I took the high road and provided a link to my work and cited it properly on your web site. I take great pains when I publish my info to provide links and proper credit to other web publishers. I only expect the same in return from other publishers.

If you will look closely there are a couple of pages where someone actually did original research on their own and published it. I did nothing to that info and left it intact. In fact, the info was somewhat different than mine. Again, I took the high road and added a link to my page to let researchers see both conclusions.

Again, I am in no way hostile to FamilySearch wiki. It is a great source for genealogists. I hope we can both work together agreeably in this cause.

I find it wonderful that you like my work!

Best Regards

Larry Stevens

www.ohiocivilwar.com

lstevens@infinet.com

Hi Larry,

Yes you are using this feature correctly (I also received message via email). Firstly to avoid any misunderstanding, I do not represent FamilySearch, I speak for myself as a contributor to the wiki. I am an administrator in the wiki and I've also been asked to help on the wiki Governance Team. I feel that I have been asked to help in these areas because I like to keep the wiki well maintained.

What drew me to your edits was the edit summaries mentioning copyright and that when I looked I could see the efforts of other contributors being removed. I agree with a point you made, which is contained in one of the polices of the wiki link, don't copy. In my mind the purpose of the Research Wiki is to help people find records and resources that will help their research. Linking to online resources, like the one you provide is, I feel, a core part of what the wiki sets out to achieve.

I also see another purpose of the wiki is to help people find alternative resources to those they may have already tried. This can be done by linking related articles together. Some of the content that you have removed were such links - between articles about military units and the localities from which they recruited. I think that these links added value to the articles in question and should be restored.

If I understand your previous message you are claiming copyright to this information - where particular companies recruited their men - and mention the time and effort that went into compiling this information. The fact that it is complied suggests that the information did not originate with you. In fact you quote sources like Steve Ward's Buckeyes All. My understanding is that information can not be copyrighted (see What Does Copyright Protect?, US Copyright Office)

I fully support the request that your website be given credit and note that many if not all pages already included a link to your website. Where citations need correction, I'm all for it, but if the original contributors want to restore the links back to the county articles, I do hope we don't see an edit war.

If I have misunderstood your position, I apologise. If any other contributors want to correct my understanding of copyright or the policies of the wiki, please do. I hope we can all work together to improve the wiki. --Steve 17:48, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

Hey Steve

As I said before I'm not hostile to FamilySearch.

Steve it will work fine the way it is now. It is not my fault that someone worked for three to four months copying and pasting information. But I have worked on and provided and have a copy right notice on the page and info. They did not even show me enough respect to ask me if they could do it. When they did link to my site it was offhanded and not labeled correctly. It looked like you guys had done a lot of work when you just fluffed up your site at the expense of my work and others.

I also stated that any of the links that anyone showed original work on I left them alone. Only where they cut and pasted info from my page were things deleted.

Always back to Links are OK - Cutting and pasting has always been bad.

I see they did not go out to the Wikipedia (Wikipedia.org) and cut and paste info to FamilySearch wiki site.

I know there is conflicts between original content internet publishers and Wiki people. Our philosophies differ somewhat. But I feel I have dealt with this in an honest and easy going manner that lets both parties use this information.

Links are OK - Cutting and pasting has always been bad form and frowned upon and gives a organization a bad name. Where I come from that is blatant theft.

I believe this will work out by leaving things the way they are now. I will be watching.

Thanks for your comments.

Best Regards

Larry Stevens lstevens@infinet.com www.ohiocivilwar.com

5:15 PM eastern time US March 14th 2012

Ohio Military Articles - Copyright claims (again)
I recently reverted some of your edits that you made regarding Ohio Military Regiments. I noticed today that you have again deleted these simple facts that other users have added. The edits you are making and have been making over the past six months primarily involve the deletion of others work because you claim to have copyrighted the information about the regiments.

Since facts cannot be copyrighted your claims to copyright are not valid.

It appears that User Cottrells tried to make this point back in March (above) and pointed you to the U.S. Copyright Office's website where it clearly states in the first paragraph that facts are not eligible to be copyrighted. More information can also found on Wikipedia.

You are of course entitled to copyright protection for your website and for your webpages. However, U.S. copyright law does not extend that protection to the facts contained on those pages. Only the original way in which they are presented.

Additionally, I fail to understand how you think that you can copyright facts that you yourself claim to have taken from another publisher, namely "Steve Ward's Buckeyes All". Please explain to me why you think that you are able to publish already published facts, but no one else can.

Lotje2 22:56, 3 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Lotje2 Obviously you did not read any of my thoughts on the matter above.  Yes I did that. I publish the Ohio in the Civil War web site. NOTE: I have a copy right notice on all of my pages. I'm sure as you know it takes time and a lot of work to compile and set up information like this. I offer the information for free to any one on the internet. Common internet courtesy is to link to information sites like mine. It is not courteous to cut and paste my work into your web site! Links are great - stealing info is not!  I also have noted the following on all of the FamilySearch pages "Please note that all contributions to FamilySearch Wiki can be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. When creating content, please use public domain or similar free resources (see FamilySearch Wiki:Copyrights for details) or create original text. Do not submit copyrighted work without permission. Entries that violate copyright or other acceptable use policies will be deleted by FamilySearch Wiki administrators."  I have never given FamilySearch wiki permission to publish my info on their web site. I never will. But I offer up links to my site for FREE.  The main Wikipedia web site ( Wikipedia.org ) users honor the Copyright notices and I see no reason why FamilySearch wiki should have to resort to the cutting and pasting game.  As you see I have deleted all of my work. But I took the high road and provided a link to my work and cited it properly on your web site. I take great pains when I publish my info to provide links and proper credit to other web publishers. I only expect the same in return from other publishers.  If you will look closely there are a couple of pages where someone actually did original research on their own and published it. I did nothing to that info and left it intact. In fact, the info was somewhat different than mine. Again, I took the high road and added a link to my page to let researchers see both conclusions.  Again, I am in no way hostile to FamilySearch wiki. It is a great source for genealogists. I hope we can both work together agreeably in this cause.  Links are OK - Cutting and pasting has always been bad form and frowned upon and gives a organization a bad name. Where I come from that is blatant theft.  I really don't need to justify anything to you Lotje2 as you are intent on internet piracy. But I have one thing … I have specific permission from Mr. Ward to publish the information. I have scruples.  I actually have no problem with researchers and private genealogists using the info. But you people go way over the line stealing the info that I rightfully claim web copyright on. You steal the info and publish as your own web site. You are like parasites. Why are links not enough for you guys?  I have never given anyone from your organization permission to publish the information. I never will.  I only delete info that has been directly stolen from my website.  Again .. I say common internet courtesy is to link to information sites like mine. It is not courteous to cut and paste my work into your web site! Links to my site are fine - stealing info from my site for your publication is not!  You have stolen copyrighted info from my webpage for your publication. It is wrong. Links are freely given. It is theft. Links are fine, copying and pasting and content theft is not.  If this continues I will surely contact my lawyer.  Larry Stevens


 * Firstly, I am not affiliated with FamilySearch.org or the LDS. I am only a contributor on here.


 * If you are claiming copyright, you do owe people an explanation. Especially if you are going to delete their work.


 * It's nice that Steve Ward gave you permission. However, since facts cannot be copyrighted, he too cannot copyright ""facts". Even if he could the copyright would remain with him, not you.


 * You have been given sufficient citation on the pages. In fact, you have a link in the middle of all of the pages. Something not given to other sources.


 * I am not going to argue with you over this. You are simply wrong. The links provided to you above make it clear that facts cannot be copyrighted. (U.S. Copyright Office's website) and.


 * I am not one of the people working on these pages and do not plan to chase you around as you vandalize this site and delete others work.


 * User:Cottrells was very polite to you, but you apparently ignored all of his concerns and comments as well as mine. If you continue to do nothing on this site except to delete others work, you will continue to have problems and in my opinion should be banned.


 * Lotje2 02:53, 4 December 2012 (UTC)

= =

Lotje2

I've been more than polite with you and the familysearch wiki community. You are wasting my time with your legalese language.

You, whoever you are, are narrow minded and have no scruples. You probably have never worked on an original published page or compilation other than to just steal from someone else's work.

You state, "I am not one of the people working on these pages and do not plan to chase you around as you vandalize this site and delete others work." I, whoever you are, consider my site vandalized by FamilySearch Research Wiki. Who are you? Are you some kind of God?

Also, I owe thieves no explanation for anything. Most people here are adults and should know that they are stealing.

I know what right is. Links are fine to my site. Theft from my copyrighted pages is wrong. Do not just mindlessly cut and paste and steal from my web pages.

Again to whoever steals the info on from my web pages. You have stolen copyrighted info from my webpage for your publication. It is wrong. Links are freely given. It is theft. Links are fine, copying and pasting and content theft is not.

lstevens@infinet.com

reply to Lotje2 10:45 pm Dec 3 2012 from Lstevens@infinet.com

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"Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do." - Supreme Court Justice Potter Stewart

Lstevens@infinet.com --- December 28 2012

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